Improve Your Braking

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Improve Your Braking

Postby Gman » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:53 pm

It's a common subject that come ups on these bikes that the braking is inadequate.Although not Earth shattering when correctly bled and with good quality Pads(I recommend EBC) they can be fit for the job.

Modern Steel Braided lines are superior to the older none Sleeved type.

Image

Also sometimes the brakes have not been properly bled.A common occurrence is that the holes in the Master Cylinder can become blocked a reduce braking and also Sticky Calliper pistons.

For the pistons I take the callipers off and pump the lever until most of the piston is out and then Carb/Brake cleaner de-grease them and then polish them with some fine metal polish and clean off.Then on re-assembly I use some Molybdenum Di-Sulphide lubricant and smear a thing film on the pistons.You can use clean Brake fluid.

I compress them back in with a C/G-Clamp.Then fully bleed the system including below.


Another common problem is blocked holes in the Master Cylinder.The MC should be thoroughly cleaned out and if need be the holes poked out and High pressure air blown through or at the very least Carb/Brake cleaner Aerosol cleaned after clearing.

Then you need to get the new Fluid to pump through the Master Cylinder and this can be a chore.Some people tie the brake lever and leave overnight however I now use much simpler methods that are almost instant method

Protect your paintwork 1st

Image




1:Kung Fu Hand Method:Top up the MC.Open tight hand calliper bleed nipple with 6mm rubber/plastic pipe into jar with a couple of inches of brake fluid in it so pipe is submerged.If not allergic smear some brake fluid on your hand.Place palm onto MC top and press to form seal.Squeeze pump the lever until pressure comes through and the fluid starts to come through the bleed nipple.Then bleed system as normal.
2:The Banjo Player:Unscrew MC front Banjo bolt.Place Thumb or Finger on the front MC hole and then pump the lever until the fluid comes through and tries to push your pinky away.
You may have to release your digit lightly and press it back whilst you do this and slow to medium pump the lever.
When you feel the fluid flow you have to get the Banjo bolt back in really quickly once the fluid flows and allow as little air as possible into the MC via the hole.Bit tricky but works!!!Wash hands off when done.

Continue to top up MC and open left or right hand bleed nipple with,"One-man-Brake bleed kit or as I do a length of pipe into a Jar with some brake fluid in it to stop air getting back in whilst bleeding ".


Now bleed right hand side if dual Disc.Then return and re-bleed left hand side to make sure.

Both my CXs brake well good enough for me and it also helps that I have 20w,"Heavy"fork oil in them as this really improves the damping on braking and handling no end.

I use Dot 4 Brake fluid.


Note:If the system is not correctly bled the brakes will be spongy and no good.

Note:If neither of these systems work then it most likely your MC is faulty.Repair or replace.


HTH :)
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Blindstitch2002 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:44 am

20w fork oil you say.
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Gman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:52 am

Yep.Compared with ATF it's like Night and Day.If you rode either of my CXs you would you would feel the same security and joy on bends I do.The handling changes totally and the braking feel improves as it's like having dampers on the front end.
Also small road bumps just don't get transmitted up the frame.
God knows how good they would feel if I ever get round to when needs must to fitting Tapered roller bearings.I've fitted them to the spare frame I have but not on my running bikes.
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Blindstitch2002 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:15 am

Do you know the difference between
Atf
10w
15w
20w
30w

And would it hurt if you put any type in the forks.
I'm looking for the best results possible.
Also a lot of places say to change the fork oil after 2 years does it just break down from use or can just sitting kill it.
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Gman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:49 am

Fork oil is different than engine oil and designed to take different stresses just like gearbox oil(Hypoids).The W part of the designation is not as many think,"Weight" but actually stands for,"Winter" but even this has become pretty vauge as oil compostions have changed.My underatanding of oils is better than some but still way lacking compared with others.

I have done quite a bit of reading up/research on the subject,

This is a good resource,

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

I would not go higher than 20w as it has just the right amount of viscosity to me for these bikes.Some people like 10W or 15W.I like the heavier damping but I suppose that's a matter of taste but it's all better than ATF.

Yes oil degrades even if not used.
Yes it degrades with usage.

On one site I found an independant tester tried several Known brands of motor oil from cheap to expensive and found that even the so called best engine synthetic oil lost 25% of it's viscosity within 1,000 miles but the good news was that the cheapest basic mineral oil only lost 28% of it's viscosity in the same 1,000 miles.
As motorcycles put more strain on the oil than a car engine to me it's paramount to the longevity of the engines to dump it often.On these bikes anything between 3,000 and 4,000 miles instead of the running engine 7,500 mile service point.
The moral to this to me is.Buy cheap and change often.

Oil is the blood of the engine.

Same with the forks.If you ride where the roads aren't always flat then change it more often.It's not expensive($12 for 500 ml) and on my bikes 1 500 ml bottle does both my bikes (135 cc per leg).

Same with Brake fluid.It is Hydrosopic which means it attracts and absorbs moisture so should be changed after a reasonable time.Again it's not expensive IMHO

Tip:

If you haven't already then change your Bleed nipples to Stainless Steel ones if they aren't already.My original ones on both my CXs were the crappy brass ones.These round-off with age.

In the UK I've fitted Hel steels,

http://tinyurl.com/6banl7

Image
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Blindstitch2002 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:00 am

What about filling. I know you said 135cc and that's easy to to with a measuring glass but is filling the fork leg 5 1/2 inches from the top fully compressed with the springs out the same?
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Gman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:06 pm

Blindstitch2002 wrote:What about filling. I know you said 135cc and that's easy to to with a measuring glass but is filling the fork leg 5 1/2 inches from the top fully compressed with the springs out the same?


I don't know as I've only ever used a measuring jug and just poured it in :shock:
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby dcadon » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:35 pm

Blindstitch2002 wrote:but is filling the fork leg 5 1/2 inches from the top fully compressed with the springs out the same?


Where did you hear this one? I've only ever used the measure cup to get the right amount.
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby LRCXed » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:02 am

He got it from me Shep. I have seen this type of measurement several times, as well as in the instructions that came in my new Progressive springs. Seems to work fine, as my bike rides very stable.
"If I need to have someone do something for me, why shouldn't I learn to do it myself"
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Re: Improve Your Braking

Postby Blindstitch2002 » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:46 am

Ok so I'm back to hating honda again. Dropped by the honda dealer to pick up some 20w fork oil and couldn't find it. Asked the idiot at the counter and he showed me were they kept the two bottles of fork oil. 5w and 5w. The guy asked me what type I wanted and I said 20w. And he asked me why because theres no reason to use higher than 5 in most bikes. Told him that Harleys and Indians used as high as 30w and left. Oh yeah they can order it if I want to wait two weeks.

Tried to get to the Harley dealer but the woman wanted to go to the art museum. Saw a bunch of Ron Finch bikes in for the 105th Harley anniversary.
http://www.finchscustoms.com/
Was worth it. I'll try again tomorrow.
They have the whole streets blocked off in front of the Harley dealers here so I'm in for a walk. The girlfriend tried to get me what I wanted but gave up to soon. We drove by the nearest harley dealer and I asked her what the problem was and she was like the block was fenced off and I didn't know where it was. From the intersection I said what's so hard about finding the dealership it's the thing with the orange sign saying harley. Boy she felt dumb knowing she could practically hit it with a rock. Guess I'll try again tomorrow.
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